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‘Mike Pence and Congress [to] make that decision’

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One of the fake electors put forward by Republicans in Michigan said in December 2020 that the plan to use a slate of fake electors to help Donald Trump win their state came together following conversations with “some very incredible constitutional attorneys” from the Trump campaign.

In a December 2020 radio interview reviewed by CNN’s KFile, Meshawn Maddock, one of the 16 fake electors in Michigan charged by the state attorney general for the alleged scheme, detailed the Trump campaign-directed plan and said the crucial decision on which electors to use would ultimately rest with a constitutional attorney and Vice President Mike Pence and Congress.

The newly uncovered interview reveals Maddock’s detailed knowledge of the Trump campaign’s involvement in the plot and undermines her more recent comments claiming only a “vague” recollection of it when asked about CNN reporting from last year – which first reported on the Trump campaign’s alleged involvement in the scheme, according to three sources with direct knowledge.

While Maddock has previously claimed the fake GOP electors were not meant to replace the legitimate Democratic ones, even in the December 2020 interview, her newly uncovered comments about Pence show her understanding that the slate of fake electors could eventually usurp the legitimate elector votes on January 6, 2021.

Despite Trump losing the state by more than 150,000 votes, Maddock and 15 others signed phony certificates claiming to be the legitimate electors from the state just days before the interview and attempted to enter their state capitol to deliver the votes.

“I’m no constitutional attorney,” Maddock said on December 16, 2020, in an interview with local radio host Steve Gruber. “I’m an elector for Donald Trump from the Michigan Republican Party. I along with the other 15 electors were guided by legal minds – attorneys for our president, some very incredible constitutional attorneys – I’ve never in my whole life appreciated legal minds and attorneys before.”

She did not name the Trump attorneys who were involved.

“I can tell you that in the last few weeks, just some incredible minds,” she added. “And from what I understand, you know, you have the federal constitutional law, and then you have state statutes, um, and they’re two different things. So, what we did, uh, along with seven other states, really send in dueling electors, and that will be there before, um, you know, a federal constitutional attorney, and it’ll be before, uh, Mike Pence and Congress to make that decision.”

Maddock, the wife of a conservative member of the state legislature, would go on to serve as co-chair of the Michigan Republican Party after the 2020 election and preside over historic losses for Michigan Republicans in the 2022 midterms.

She parroted some of Trump’s most controversial false claims of voter fraud in the 2020 election and eventually deleted a tweet spreading the unfounded conspiracy theory that Dominion Voting Systems had changed votes in the election.

In the December 2020 interview, Maddock cited the 1960 election in Hawaii in which pro-Kennedy electors were also sent to the National Archives – an argument cited by Trump campaign attorneys in memos that outlined their fake elector plans.

“I think the last time was in 1960, the state of Hawaii sent in a dueling slate,” Maddock said.

There are key differences between the 2020 election in Michigan and the 1960 election in Hawaii. Richard Nixon’s win of the state was reversed after a recount with John F. Kennedy getting the state’s electoral votes. Nixon and Kennedy were separated at the time of the recount by less than 150 votes. Biden led Trump by more than 150,000 votes in Michigan and the result was never in doubt.

Maddock declined to comment on this report.

‘Vague to me’

Despite demonstrating an understanding of how exactly the plan to use fake electors worked in December 2020, Maddock has since said she doesn’t have much recollection of the details.

“A lot of that is still vague to me. And I don’t have any email communications with any of these people,” Maddock said when asked which attorneys asked her to sign the fake election documents in another interview with Steve Gruber in July 2023.

Maddock seemingly placed blame on the last state party chairperson.

“Laura Cox was our state party chair at the time, somebody from her staff contacted all of us, asked us to be at the Michigan Republican Party office at 2 pm,” Maddock said.

Cox said in a deposition with the House select committee that investigated January 6, 2021, she was asked by the Trump campaign to “facilitate having the electors meet and sign some sort of document,” which Cox said made her uncomfortable.

“So, we came up with a document that we would have them have a ceremonial meeting, and one person would sign a document stating that if perhaps something were to happen in the courts, they were willing and able to serve as electors from Michigan for Donald Trump and Mike Pence,” Cox said.

Charged

In July, Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel charged Maddock and the 15 others for their roles in the Trump campaign’s plan to subvert the Electoral College and overturn the 2020 election results by supplanting lawful Democratic electors with fake Republican electors.

Each of the fake Michigan electors were charged with eight state felonies: two counts of forgery, one count of conspiracy to commit forgery, two counts of election law forgery, one count of conspiracy to commit election law forgery, one count of publishing a counterfeit record and one count of conspiring to publish a counterfeit record. Each person pleaded not guilty to the felony charges.

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